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Quietest places you have ever been.
15-Aug-2010, 11:16 AM
Post: #31
 
Cue to bite again.[Tongue]
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15-Aug-2010, 10:10 PM
Post: #32
 
quote:

Originally posted by Martin

I like it when you take the bait Phil. You can give it but you certainly can't take it. [}Smile]

I know Wigan fans are hyper-sensitive, but lighten up a bit and enjoy the banter.





What cant I take ?? My reply is banter back nothing more nothing less Martin ! If you picture me getting all upset and swearing at my monitor then I am afraid you are well off the mark. I suggest you stick to your telescope and leave the footy banter to the proper footy fans and I mean that in the nicest possible way Martin [8D]
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15-Aug-2010, 10:52 PM
Post: #33
 
Of course it's only banter Phil. As a true football fan<g> You should know what that is. [Wink]

Martin ~
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16-Sep-2010, 10:54 AM
Post: #34
 
I did a job in 1986 converting a 1912 Stanley Steam Car to run on LPG, originally running on shellite and vaporised distillate. A two piston steam engine fed from a 18 inch vertical fire tube boiler. Had to rebuild and recalibrate all the expansion controls to regulate firstly heat vaporised LPG liquid and then vapour to the firing system. Had to make a horizontal LPG tank look like the original fuel tnak which was exposed at the back. Got it going and the car ran without any engine noise, the wierdest sensation. At the time it was new, I'm told it was the fastest car in the world, able to go forward at 110 mph, and by reversing the steam flow at 87 mph in reverse, you'd want good mirrors - wouldn't you.
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17-Sep-2010, 02:32 AM
Post: #35
 
Great stuff Peter, any photos anywhere?
John
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17-Sep-2010, 06:12 AM
Post: #36
 
Hi John

See the link http://www.stanleysteamers.com/techpage/30hpboiler.htm which shows photos of the type of boiler I converted, note the pipe vapouriser for distillate is located where the flames are present over the burners which are cast in refractory, the liquid is vaporised and injected into an inspirator to draw in primary combustion air in the same way as in a gas fire, the flames here are, however a lot more intense. I don't think the vapouriser system would pass current NFPA scrutiny though.
The boiler I worked on was all steel with about 1/4 inch fire tubes predominantly expanded, but with welded stay tubes, I did a full hand calculation metallurgical analysis of the boiler conversion for the change of fuel so we didn't cause stess issues within the boiler pressure containment design. The boiler shell, tubes and attachment plates were not original and had been made at the Naval Dockyard in Sydney in the late 1970's.
I did away with all that gubbins in the vapouriser system (not for NFPA reasons - this was an unintended safety improvement)and simply connected LPG vapour to the supply controls of the distillate system and recalibrated the orifice, the controls were bi-metallic expansion type. This was actually the hardest part of the job as you can imagine attempting to characterise flow of gas to flow of liquid with corresponding thermal delivery difference, fortunately there was no change of shape characteristic to complicate the flow equation, only the fluid and heat value difference. I actually achived this by providing two separate variable orifii which were locked off post-commissioning.
The LPG liquid was vapourised from return hot water from the engine using a standard automotive LPG converter that is normally fed with hot water from the car radiator - a mixture of the old and the new - and really good fun. Onstart up, in Australia - due to the favourable weather, there is enough ambient heat to provide enough vapour to get you going without having to provide a warm up system.

Australia is also really good for finding remnants of old cars and Industrial revolution-like technology still functioning - I have seen cotton mill steam driven engines still working to provide rotational power to several floors in grain mills and so on the Tablelands near Cairns. In Townsville Queensland there is an exact model of the Barton Swing Bridge that spans the Manchester Ship Canal (or used to when I went to college in Manchester)complete with a now non-functioning Holmes Gas Engine designed to run on Towns Gas, I worked on Steam catalyst gas reformers over here long after Britain has phased out such processes. For those like me, interested in such machines, and the matters that made them work it is a gold mine.
Cheers
Peter
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18-Sep-2010, 03:05 AM
Post: #37
 
Many thanks, very interesting.
On a similar vein, I was reading the biography of Stanley Hooker. The genius who made Rolls Royce engines what they are today. A 'must read' for engineers, all the early work was done in Clitheroe and Barnoldswick. Anyway, I'm drifting off the point, I'm sure people remember that all early jet aircraft smoked a lot, long trails of black smoke for miles. Well, Lucas designed and built the fuel pump and injector systems [in Burnley] which sprayed fuel into the combustion chambers, it was discovered that preheating and vapourising the fuel improved combustion no end, and no smoke. Much the same as you describe. The analogy I was told is that it is much the same as an old fashioned blowlamp.
A great book, called 'Not much of an engineer', highly recommended.
John
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18-Sep-2010, 11:04 AM
Post: #38
 
Pete I know that we drifted off course slightly from the original thread but to say you have digressed completely would be an understatement ! Congratulations for being this weeks " Biggest Swerve Ball Post " ha ha ha
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18-Sep-2010, 04:08 PM
Post: #39
 
Cheers Phil - Hey John - I'll try and locate the reference you kindly provided. I have used the reference of Lewis and Von Elbe (and lots of others) for most of the advanced work I have had to do in helping to make sense of scientific development of Industrial combustion and pressure development under containment. This has been aimed primarily at "safe design" to ensure that if combustion controls go haywire, the device will not shrapnel under explosion, but relieve the pressure rise safely, and away from people. I have also encountered the smoky issues you discussed earlier in other systems over the years, the common sense solution of providing fuel, oxygen and ignition energy doesn't always satisfy these basic requirements when you consider that fuel quality at point of combustion and chemical equilibrium matters such as residence time and regulated primary and secondary combustion air are also relevant. Interesting stuff.
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18-Sep-2010, 04:22 PM
Post: #40
 
Sorry John

Again digressing the reason I mentioned the combustion issue is that I came across a system that used a jet engine to insert combustion gases into mines to inert the mine atmosphere by oxygen depletion after a gas explosion. The system was set up to provide an atmosphere of around 2% oxygen, but sensors kept up revealing higher levels. The sensors used were combustible gas detectors and the crude control system provided an oxygen level as required, but with substantial incomplete combustion products that were picked up by the sensors as combustible gases. This prevented mine rescue from entering until combustible gas was not present _ not a good system. Fortunately changing a few things patched this up.

Peter
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