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Iron Gate Farm
05-Sep-2011, 10:00 PM
Post: #61

Originally posted by Black Five

Frank, sadly several of the railway links that you mention disappeared long ago, mainly in 1968 I think, so your questions are about the history of how it used to be. The line through Todd Lane Junction was the Blackburn to Preston line, and it did indeed pass over the Brownedge Road level crossing. The westbound line from Blackburn divided at Bamber Bridge (crossing the A6 as you state), one direction going to Preston as described above and the other direction going under the Todd Lane South bridge that you mention to Lostock Hall station, and on from there via Ormskirk to Liverpool. There was also a curve linking Todd Lane Junction to Lostock Hall, which provided the route from Preston to Liverpool. That curve crossed Brownedge Road under "Red Bridge", adjacent to which was the bungalow that I grew up in. A map of that fairly complicated part of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway is reproduced in the historical section of the Wikipedia article on Preston railway lines.
The drastic changes in 1968 resulted in the disappearance of all the above links except the Blackburn-Lostock Hall part. Westbound trains from Lostock Hall now join the main north-south railway line, either northbound via Farington Curve to Preston, or southbound to Leyland and beyond, with no longer a direct line to Liverpool via Ormskirk. At that time all the platforms on the East Lancashire side of Preston Station, which we used to reach by walking down Butler Street, also disappeared. You can see the existing rail links by using Google Maps.
It's a long time since I last visited these railway places, and there are other knowledgeable people in this Forum who might be able to add more details or correct my account.

These might bring back a few memories
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10-Sep-2011, 11:34 PM
Post: #62
Thanks for these links Tony. Lots of interesting stuff here. In particular Roger Sutcliffe's photos revive memories and confirm some details about long-gone Brownedge Crossing.
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11-Sep-2011, 08:27 AM
Post: #63
Thanks Tony for the information link and Rogers photos -interesting and nostalgic stuff -I was not in the country for all the changes and feel I would have been very sad to see Brownedge Rd like that.
The old Mill in Bamber Bridge stands out very clearly.
I wonder if anything will ever be done about it -my cousin lives a stone's throw away and still hopes for something to happen either restoration -doubtful???? or demolition ???? but I believe it is a listed building.
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25-Jan-2012, 11:53 PM
Post: #64
After an absence from the thread I started a while ago here is my latest update.
Anyone new to the thread may need to revisit the first few pages because the contributions seem to have mutated into a wander down memory lane but no worse for that. I’ve really enjoyed the reminiscences for their own sake and also it’s helped to put my search for my Grandfather’s history into a social-historical context.
Born illegitimate, my Grandfather, through his adoptive parents, was known as Andler ( Warrener ) and not christened 'Hanley' as I had been led to believe by documentation but 'Stanley' . The misunderstanding was caused by the confusingly ornate copperplate handwriting of his birthcertificate combining the ‘St’ of Stanley into an ‘H’.
I had always been lead to believe that he died in 1920 by drowning as either an accident or possibly murder.
Generally speaking coroner’s records are not kept for as long as other documents or census results but in this case we were lucky thanks to the efforts of fellow-contributor to the Forum ‘Wilko’ to whom I am very grateful.
The notification to the coroner by the police is printed verbatim below.

“DDX 103/CR/25

Witness statements

Maud Warrener says, I reside at Irongate Farm, Bamber Bridge. The deceased was my husband and was 50 years of age. I last saw him alive about 10 pm on Sunday the 2nd May 1920 in the kitchen (* The deceased had gone to bed about 3 o’clock in the afternoon. He had got up at 8 o’clock on Sunday morning) Deceased had been away from home on business since Sunday the 25th April 1920 at Scarboro and district and returned about midnight on Saturday the 1st May. Decease appeared to be rather the worse for drink but did not ail much. He was in company with a Mr. Herbert Asquith of Norton, who stayed alnight at the farm and left to catch a train at Preston Junction Station about 2 pm on Sunday 2nd Inst. After Mr Asquith left, deceased said he would go and lay down for a bit. He went to bed. I took him a cup of tea about 4 pm, which he drank and laid down again. (* About 5 o’clock I asked him to (??) with the children and he said he was too ill). Deceased came downstairs about 10 pm the 2nd Inst and said he was going to the lavatory. He went out by the back door. I waited a considerable time for him to come back. As he did not come at 10.15 pm I went to the lavatory and not finding him I looked through the buildings but did not see him again until his dead body was brought home by the police about 5 pm the 3rd Inst. Deceased had no trouble either financially or otherwise that I know of. He had been rather strange in his manner recently, talking in a childish manner, troubles about the bad weather and about a fortnight ago “said he would be as well off in the rain tub”, but he has never threatened to do anything to himself. He has recently taken too much intoxicating drink. Deceased has recently bought some horses and carts to do the carting in connection with the house building scheme of the Walton - le - Dale Urban District Council, and he has troubled a bit about whether it would be a success or not but has never hinted at doing anything rash

Maud Warrener [Signature]

(*) = Later additions to the statement

John George Bell says, I am a Police Inspector stationed at Bamber Bridge. I received information about 11.45 pm the 2nd Inst that deceased had left home about 10 pm 2nd Inst and had not returned. As deceased did not turn up at his home on the 3rd Inst a search was made around the fields in the neighbourhood of the farm and at about 4.30 pm the 3rd Inst I discovered the body of the deceased in a pit in a field belonging to the farm and about 250 yards from deceased’s house. The body was face downwards in about 3 feet of water. It was fully dressed with the exception of hat and one boot. I recovered the body and had it removed home. There are no marks of violence on the body and no suspicions of foul play. The pit is about 50 yards distant from the footpath and deceased would have to either open the gate or climb the fence to get to the pit. Deceased had no business in the field, there being no stock or anything there. No documents were found in deceased’s pockets indicating his intention to do anything to himself. I knew deceased well. He appears to have taken too much to drink recently.”.............................

Perhaps unwisely I took a map contemporary to his death and traced the route he took from his home at Irongate Farm, along one of the streams that fed the millpond which is where he killed himself. It’s excruciating to think what drove him to do it. He was a 50 year old man with a 32 year old wife, an adopted daughter of 10 yrs, a mentally disabled son of 6 yrs and my Father who was six months old. He had married my grandmother Maud only a few months beforehand after a long-term relationship. His probate report reveals that he left a reasonably sizeable sum. (£900+) Through looking into his background I have found that there are a number of hints about him probably being from an affectionate and loyal background. There’s lot of reading between the lines to be done with all this information as to Andler’s background and his current circumstances and it is all quite fascinating if a little morbid.
There are a number of questions arising from the above and my previous postings. The most obvious is why did he do it?
Who was 'Mr. Herbert Asquith of Norton’ mentioned in the report to the coroner? Norton is the town where my grandfather was raised by his foster-parents. Norton Stanley Warrener was my Father’s name. There are a lot of Nortons here and I’m searching for the connection.
Who was my Grandfather’s natural Father? Charlotte Gray was his Mother but his Father is not recorded. Did Andler's Mother name him Stanley after her Father, Uncle, or his Father?

I’m currently on the trail of all these questions and will let you know as it progresses. If anyone has any ideas or information then, as ever, I’d be pleased and grateful to hear from you.

Best wishes, Barrie
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27-Jan-2012, 03:16 PM
Post: #65
I remember the Railway pub very well and wish i had a pound for every pint I "supped" in there,us railway men called it Harry Ward's as he was the landlord in the early 60's.Was he Peter's father?It was handy as it was accross the road from the shed.
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01-Dec-2013, 11:36 PM
Post: #66
RE: Iron Gate Farm
I see I'm recorded as AWOL!

I'm still here but reached a bit of a stonewall trying to find out about grandfather's mother Charlotte Gray.
To recap: she was an unmarried mother who relinquished my grandfather to the kindly farmers, Mr and Mrs Warrener whose surname I now share.
I am trying to find out who the father was and therefore who I am related to.
I've not been able to progress that so far although I have found a couple of newspaper articles about Andler Warrener who was Charlotte's son and, of course, my grandfather. They are to do with mugging and divorce and I'll dig them up and post them soon!

In the meantime apologies for not continuing with the saga and hope you are all well.
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03-Dec-2013, 06:19 PM
Post: #67
RE: Iron Gate Farm
Oh joy! I see that I've been promoted from AWOL to Junior Member Big Grin

Here's my news.........
The Sheffield Daily Telegraph reported on Monday March 10th 1890:
“Doncaster Division. SAVAGE ASSAULT.- On Saturday at West Riding Court ,
Doncaster, Fred Lister, Labourer, Norton, was charged with assaulting
Andler Warrener, farmer’s son on 24th ult.- Defendant was ordered to pay 40s, including costs.”

So, what happened I wonder and if it’s become part of the Lister family legend?
Poor old Andler! He would have been 20 at the time.

Then the Daily Mail of Friday November 9th 1917 reports this:
( It had to be the Daily Mail didn’t it? Some things never change!)

“Mrs Emily Warrener, of Norton, near Doncaster, Petitioned in the Divorce Division
on Thursday before Mr Justice Hill, for the dissolution of her marriage with Andler
Warrener, on the ground of his cruelty and misconduct with a woman named
Mrs Richardson (My Grandmother!) There was no defence.
Mr Grazebrook, petitioner’s counsel, said that respondent was a horse dealer.
The parties lived at Norton up to April 1910, when, owing to respondent’s
continuous and continued ill-treatment during the ten months of their married life
his wife was obliged to leave him. The cruelty was of a most revolting kind, apart
from physical violence.
Mrs Emily Warrener, in evidence, said that very soon after the marriage she had
occasion to complain of her husband’s ill treatment. She left him in 1910, and he
came after her. He wanted some money, and eventually she wrote a cheque.
From that day to this she heard nothing from till he came to her about Christmas,
1912 to see if she would have a divorce. She would not then entertain the idea,
but afterwards discovered that her husband was living with Mrs Richardson.
His Lordship found that there had been gross cruelty on the part of the husband,
at that misconduct had been proved. He granted the petition with costs”.

Andler was 48 at the time and, if you recall the earlier unhappy tale he was 51 when
he committed suicide.
It’s very odd to read all these things about a man I never knew but, through my
Father and Grandmother, feel an affinity with.
I wonder what else I’ll find out as I try to find out who my great Grandfather was.........?
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